The rise of the Nameless Horror!

[Greneth]

Reading the previous posts from Arman and Cherek reminds me, why I stopped posting, not only because of the incredible conservatism that keep insisting not to manage Genesis as an actual game, but most of all the unwillingness to actually READ what is written in good faith, instead of picking at a corner of a message and inflating or twisting that, or as we have seen from Arman just now, use the age old slippery slope argument to sweep away ideas.

Reading the previous posts from certain mortals reminds me, why I get disheartened when I code stuff and fail to want to release anything I do. Not only because of the incredibly rude and obnoxious people who will just ask why I didn't do their idea instead and retracts from the fun part of the game that I enjoy but the unwillingness to actually understand that the things I code in the game are because I found enjoyment while coding it. But most of all are the ones who come into the forums the loudest and make all kinds of wild claims and use words like cherry-picking as they beat a dead horse for the umpteenth time because they have failed to understand what it means when people disagree or the word no. Much as we have seen from the previous posters, who use the age-old tactic of "If we can't have it let's beat them down till everyone's fed up on both sides!"

Khiraa won't be coming back to Genesis as a OCC/LAY, it wasn't coming back the last time this was discussed. The time before that, the time before that time and it won't be coming back the next time this is asked. There, I saved everyone 7 more pages of debate and possibly a future debate. You're welcome.

[Makfly]

Reading the previous posts from Arman and Cherek reminds me, why I stopped posting, not only because of the incredible conservatism that keep insisting not to manage Genesis as an actual game, but most of all the unwillingness to actually READ what is written in good faith, instead of picking at a corner of a message and inflating or twisting that, or as we have seen from Arman just now, use the age old slippery slope argument to sweep away ideas.

[...]

Khiraa won't be coming back to Genesis as a OCC/LAY, it wasn't coming back the last time this was discussed. The time before that, the time before that time and it won't be coming back the next time this is asked. There, I saved everyone 7 more pages of debate and possibly a future debate. You're welcome.

I guess you meant to quote a post advocating Khiraas return?
I was talking layman guilds, though a derail from the original purpose of of the thread, I admit.

[Nerull]

Khiraa is a part, or a Cult under the leadership of Lord Gylar, the lich.

Lord Gylar is not seated in the Khiraa temple, but in his Castle. Therein, a different order may be created, which consist of a layman melee-part, and a layman clerical part. They serve as "hangarounds" for the true selection, to ascend to undeath as Death knights and vassaliches, under Lord Gylar's command. Still "Khiraa", which means Cult of the Dead, but different division.

The two latter would serve as possible OCC components, if there will be a place for them in Genesis in the future, which may, or may never happen.

WIth that said, the laymans are wanted and probably necessary, and don't need the occ parts to function. They are basically free to join, provided you got sufficiently faction standing to join them.

"The Order", which is just a working title atm, is at this current time, joinable as the skeletal framework is up and running, but still long way off for polish completion, and no eta, and naturally, no guarantees.

[Cherek]

Makfly: Any given week I would estimate I see about 50-100 different suggestions and ideas. No I am not exaggerating. People present ideas on the forums, on Discord, send me ingame mails, send me PM's here, send me PM's on Discord, and some even send me FB message. I understand it's frustrating and disappointing when I or another wizard dismisses _your_ idea, but unfortunately 49 of 50 ideas WILL be dismissed. That's just how it is. I know completely how you feel, though. When I was a player with tons of ideas that I presented, I also got frustrated when they were almost always dismissed by wizards.

But...

...we can't implement 50 ideas every week, even if we like them all. It's not even close to possible, which I am sure you understand. It's also unrealistic to expect that we would _like_ all ideas presented. We all have different ideas about all sorts of things. Mortals and wizards dont always agree. Mortals and other mortals don't always agree. Wizards and wizards don't always agree. Admin and admin doesn't always agree. That's just how life works... Just because I don't like this particular idea of yours doesn't mean I am conservative. It just means I don't like this particular idea. But perhaps I will like your next idea.

And even if I like an idea... one of three things tend to happen:

I often reply "That's a good idea and if a wizard wants to code it I am going to support it". If the idea is good but too big and complex, I tend to reply "That's a good idea but unfortunately we don't have the workforce to make it happen". The third, and of course also most unusual outcome, is that I like the idea and I (or someone else) has time to do it, and actually starts working on it. We definitely do implement ideas presented by mortals, but it only happens if the idea is realistically doable (the majority of ideas are BIG projests), and that a wizard likes it so much they want to do it, have the skills, and the time to make it happen. Finally, a liege or admin member must also like it and approve it. When all these things fall into place your idea might actually happen. As I am sure you understand, this does not happen that often, but it DOES happen.

Yes, it's frustrating for you when an idea is dismissed, especially if you really really think your idea is a good one. However, we wizards have volunteered our time to run/create this game. First and foremost WE must believe in what we are working on. I'll am not likely to spend time on something I personally don't believe will be good for the game. Even if other people think it is. Like Varian says, the person who volunteers to do the job must believe in it, or the project is likely doomed from the start.

In general most ideas presented here and elsewhere will not happen. That's just the reality, and I hope most people who suggests ideas understand that. If YOU also volunteer to implement you idea, then you have a much bigger chance, hence the old "wiz and code it yourself" saying. It's more or less always said jokingly, but it's not wrong either.

Does it mean you players should stop suggesting ideas, even if you don't plan on wizzing and coding it yourself? No, definitely not. Sometimes player ideas are implemented, and sometimes they inspire a good conversation that eventually leads to a change down the line. So, it's definitely worth a shot. However, I think you also need to be realistic about your expectations as well, and try not to be upset if your idea is dismissed.