AH Suggestion - simple / problem solver

[Cherek]

How about simply adding a random (or fixed, whatever) delay after publishing, leaving the item up for people to see, study and make up their minds and then compete by being the first, like in the real world?
5ish mins should be plenty.

Alternatively, remove the "buy now"-function all together, and let it work like a proper auction house with the existing time restraints.

I've suggested this before when this discussion has come up, and been met with a lot of resistance from players. And there are a few good good arguments against removing buy now. First of all, it's hard to match your playing schedule to whenever auctions end, which of course is why Ebay and similar sites have autobid stuff, which is probably something we would need to implement in Genesis as well, otherwise it'll probably just be frustrating to try to win the item you want.

Also, the auction house is used to sell a lot of second and third tier stuff to low-ish level of players, who can just buy a decent armour or weapon for a couple of plats, and get it immediately. This type of buying and selling would also be lost if we didn't have a buy now option. Of course, we could perhaps only allow "buy now" up maybe 100p or so.

Pros and con to all systems though, including the current system.

[nils]

Sure, now what about a random or fixed delay between when the item appears on AH and when its actually biddable? A couple minutes, just to grant others a chance to inspect said item and be ready for the moment. No announcement string, just a hidden timer that, once eloped, opens up for bids.

Would people spam like crazy? Probably
Would the ones with the least latency have an edge? If there was a string, yes. Without one it could just pan out to strokes of luck.

And that is the most important part: there would be at least a small chance to beat the bots, unlike now when the item is gone as soon as it appears.

Perfect? Nah.
Better? I think so, and all it takes is a timer..

[Quantum]

How about simply adding a random (or fixed, whatever) delay after publishing, leaving the item up for people to see, study and make up their minds and then compete by being the first, like in the real world?
5ish mins should be plenty.

Alternatively, remove the "buy now"-function all together, and let it work like a proper auction house with the existing time restraints.

I've suggested this before when this discussion has come up, and been met with a lot of resistance from players. And there are a few good good arguments against removing buy now. First of all, it's hard to match your playing schedule to whenever auctions end, which of course is why Ebay and similar sites have autobid stuff, which is probably something we would need to implement in Genesis as well, otherwise it'll probably just be frustrating to try to win the item you want.

Also, the auction house is used to sell a lot of second and third tier stuff to low-ish level of players, who can just buy a decent armour or weapon for a couple of plats, and get it immediately. This type of buying and selling would also be lost if we didn't have a buy now option. Of course, we could perhaps only allow "buy now" up maybe 100p or so.

Pros and con to all systems though, including the current system.

I like the idea of being able to set a bid limit on how much you are willing to bid upwards if others bid on an item. Sort of like a pre-bid. This allows those without advanced programming skills to better compete on the market.

Also, would you consider marking imbued and non-imbued items as 2 different auction type? This way you could keep the buyout on "newbie" or "secondary" items and remove it on imbued items to better allow for more people to bid on them?

[Cherek]

Quantum: There are lots of possible ideas that are definitely worth exploring, and if a wizard wants to pick one (that we haven't already dismissed before) and give it a go, I will not stand in the way. Unless I really think it's a bad idea of course. Right now this is not a project I will push myself, though, as we have hundreds of different things we could do and have to make priorities.

Like Zizuph explained earlier, me and him discussed a few different options before, but based on the ideas we had then, their pros and cons, and how complex or easy they would be to implement, we decided to keep things as they are regarding the auction bot issue. Right now, me, Zizuph, and Ckrik are all quite busy with other projects that we want to finish, so, I dont think this iwill be a focus for us right now. However, that doesn't stop someone else from volunteering.

[Zhar]

I think one solution to the problem could be this:
1. Remove the "buy now" feature, let all auctions run their course.
2. Add the ability to place "buy orders", where people would select the item/imbuement they want and a price they're willing to pay for it and others could deliver it to receive instant cash. This might be hard to implement but I think would be a cool feature. Plenty of good gear is rotting in the racks because people don't know what to do with it, if they'd see someone is looking for it they'd probably be willing to sell it instead.

[Skythus]

I think one solution to the problem could be this:
1. Remove the "buy now" feature, let all auctions run their course.
2. Add the ability to place "buy orders", where people would select the item/imbuement they want and a price they're willing to pay for it and others could deliver it to receive instant cash. This might be hard to implement but I think would be a cool feature. Plenty of good gear is rotting in the racks because people don't know what to do with it, if they'd see someone is looking for it they'd probably be willing to sell it instead.

Like Zhar says there is a lot of EQ laying in the racks that is valuable but possibly not directly useful to the guild.

I like the idea of separating auctions and buy-it-nows. Being able to instantly buy everything at the drop of a hat remotely is just asking for someone to idle at a bank with scripts on.

If you want to anti-bot, you could introduce more open guild stores similar to the Elemental Clerics, but primarily guild stocked and priced. You could still view the inventory on the paddle but only buy at each respective store. This would have other effects, such as Rangers possibly not being able to buy Agnarim wares and having to go through a middleman.

These stores could sell default wares based on the type of guild and have a direct buy vendor. A portion of the sale could go to a treasury that could be used to increase the value of default items, purchase items from other guilds wholesale, or purchase guild real estate. For instance, WoHS could sell enhancers and potions, and use the money from the proceeds to purchase alcohol from the Neidar at a reduced price. If you didn't want to buy directly from a guild, you could use the money to increase the potency of the enhancers or increase the variety of potions, which could earn more money. Maybe the guilds of Middle-Earth will use their proceeds to claim territory/start rooms for their members.

Not as easy as it sounds on paper but a good way to bump elbows and prevents squatting at Rommik's tent to get items.

Time to expand the Genesis Economy?

[Targun]

I suppose that the solution - if any - needs to be "good enough, with as little work as possible". There's never a shortage of ideas on Genesis, it's the workforce that's lacking.

From my perspective; disabling buyout when the asking price exceeds e.g. 200pc and setting minimum time for all all other auctions seems to:

- be easy to implement
- solve the core problem we're discussing
- allow decent quality items to still be acquired through buyout

Not saying it's the best solution, but I think it realistic (if ever to be implemented anyway). Either way AH is a great addition to the game and even when it stays as is, it's a significant improvement compared to the world without it.

[Draugor]

I think one solution to the problem could be this:
1. Remove the "buy now" feature, let all auctions run their course.
2. Add the ability to place "buy orders", where people would select the item/imbuement they want and a price they're willing to pay for it and others could deliver it to receive instant cash. This might be hard to implement but I think would be a cool feature. Plenty of good gear is rotting in the racks because people don't know what to do with it, if they'd see someone is looking for it they'd probably be willing to sell it instead.

Common tactic is to take prime gear you cant use so your enemies cant use it, back in the day knighys hoarded crimson longswords to keep it from BDA, DA's took prime axes so neidar couldnt use it, AH wont change that much.

[Cherek]

Draugor: You can't hoard EQ the same way as before, though, as you can't permananently "own" all copies of a piece of EQ and recycle them forever anymore. But sure, obviously, some guilds/people still try to keep good things out of enemy hands, which is just natural.

[Quantum]

Would it be an idea to expand the AH? (Note, idea for later implementation)

Right now people bid on random items on the AH. What if you turned it around so people could post which item they are looking for an how much they want to pay for it?

If you made a list of swords that were considered good enough to be part of the system then I could look through the list of swords, see that you have the solamnian broadsword, which I might need, and then put an auction up with a solamnian broadsword that I want to pay 30 platinum for. If anyone has a solamnian broadsword they can hand it in and claim my 30 plats.

If we had this option, the I think we might see a few more items from private stashes comming up on the auction house. Can this be abused and are the flaws? Obviously, but what do you think about the overall idea of having a reverse AH option?

Quantum